Keeping in mind that I lack full context, this is good.
Much better than I was expecting from Bunn given his track record and especially Blue #23. Blue #23 had me expecting Malice to be used as an excuse to have Lorna and Havok bone without being a couple yet, or one of several other possible bad approaches, most of them revolving around building Havok up at Lornaâs expense.
For the moment, I feel comfortable saying these pages of #24 show Bunn actually acknowledging who Lorna is and what sheâs been through, and providing her some real development and story substance in her own right. They show Bunn putting real thought into Lorna as her own character, not just a character who can benefit Magneto and Havok.
Itâs actual character development for Lorna to see her turn the mental possession back on AU Malice. To me, this is Bunnâs biggest accomplishment to date with Lorna.
That said… the potential for Malice use wasnât fully realized. Because utilizing Lornaâs history with Malice was buried within a storyline thatâs fixated first and foremost on Havok and Mothervine, Bunn did not utilize the juicy opportunities that wouldâve come out in an issue or story arc dedicated to this.
Lorna fighting for control could have been drawn out so we would see reactions from a wide range of characters as âLornaâ does things she would normally never do. We could have seen a battle between them in the mental landscape – not just combat, but Malice trying to exploit âweaknessesâ in Lornaâs thoughts and feelings, Lorna fending them off, etc. We could have seen how much care and respect other characters feel toward Lorna as they talk about what sheâs going through and try to help her.
Yes, the end result that Bunn provided was exactly right for her, and Iâm glad he went with it instead of a myriad of alternative bad options. But we still missed out on what could have been an amazing narrative journey, because Bunn chose to embed it within a Havok-and-Mothervine-centric story arc and give the greatly abridged version.
These pages change one thing for me: I now think itâs possible for Bunn to do good things with and for Lorna. I think if he puts in real effort, he can bring himself to care about Lorna enough to see her for who she is and work with it.
However, thereâs a lot this does not change.
Bunnâs written Lorna poorly enough times that one good depiction isnât enough. I still expect Lorna will be treated poorly in future issues. I still expect sheâll be written to look stupid and naive so Magneto can âcorrectâ her. I still expect sheâll be written as Havokâs manic pixie dream girl, singing his praises and putting him on a pedestal instead of getting to be her own character.
One case of good writing for Lorna isnât enough to make me think the trend of poor treatment has been broken and everythingâs blue skies from here on out. Iâll need a lot more cases of good writing before that happens.
The cover for Blue #28 remains the big painful sticking point that suggests this issue was a fluke of good treatment before a lot of coming bad treatment.
Covers represent the contents of the comic within. This is a huge warning sign that things will go back to the âstatus quoâ of âdumb rookie daughterâ with Magneto and âmanic pixie dream girlâ with Havok.
No reason to believe #24 is a full-fledged course correction when the cover for four issues from now suggests itâs not.
And the good of #24 doesnât change what happened with this page of #23.
Iâm still miffed about that âhavenât been together in a long timeâ line, and how blatantly false it is. Itâs sticking with me as a loud ringing bell of Bunn really wanting to force Lorna back into the role of Havokâs girlfriend, and all the character destruction that would entail. It reeks of trying to build a case to put them back together by skewing the facts or flat out lying. Same as how Brevoort argued against Lorna being Magnetoâs daughter, and used his editorial power to try to exclude her from her family and replace her with other characters.
One good depiction in #24 isnât enough for me to forget that. I need more.Â
Iâm still not reading Blue. I still think Bunn shouldnât be writing Lorna. I still think she should go to another writer that cares more about her and what she can offer.
But I also think itâs possible for Bunn to change my mind and convince me sheâs fine in his hands, if he keeps doing right by her. Iâll leave it at that.
This really, really irked me because even one absolutely horrid writer – bad enough that for a time top Google autocompletes for him included âsexistâ after his name – had people defending him when I called him out. I started to really, genuinely worry on what it said about Bunn that this other sexist writer had people willing to defend them while Bunn didnât. So, thanks for changing that.
Second? Iâve been busy all morning and afternoon, as I said I would be yesterday. Even if what Iâm about to say next wasnât a factor, I havenât had the time to post until now.
Third? I havenât had a chance to see this âone pageâ youâre talking about. The only things Iâve seen so far are the preview pages from last week and four images of Lorna cropped to show just her, with no text. I dropped Blue after that horrid page from #23. As such, I have literally no idea what Bunn has or hasnât done with #24. The entire issue post-previews could be The Flowers of Robert Mapplethorpe in comic book form for all I know.
Fourth? Whatever page youâre talking about could very, very easily be something you and other people think is perfection incarnate, but a closer look could reveal itâs loaded with problems.
Iâm very used to being the sole voice or one of few voices to see something wrong in writing that other people donât see. Iâm used to being the host of a Cassandra complex, where I call out warning signs and they get ignored until itâs too late. This page youâre talking about could easily be such a case. Or it might not be. It really could be as great as you make it out to be. Iâd have to see it first.
Fifth? I find your attitude amusing. Because you clearly donât know me.
I want Bunn to âshut my mouthâ in a good way. I want him to be a good writer and do amazing things with and for Lorna.
I donât enjoy railing on him, saying he canât write women, saying Polaris needs to be taken from him and given to another writer. Admittedly, there is a certain âfighterâs rushâ when I get in the thick of it, but once it fades, thereâs nothing left but depression and sadness and a slight feeling of guilt for having to call out another human being like that.
I want good writing. I want Lorna treated with love and care and due respect within that writing. If I say âthis writer is ass,â I want that writer to show me Iâm wrong to think and say such things. I want them to be the best damn writer they can be, especially to Lorna.
Iâm not one of those assholes youâre thinking about that blindly hate on people or characters for no reason other than to act snobby and superior to everyone else. I donât need to âwin the argumentâ or âprove Iâm betterâ or any of that junk. I donât need to âbe right.â I just need Lorna to be treated with the care and respect thatâs long overdue for her. Thatâs really all I need. Lorna is more important than feeding my ego with the âI was rightâ line Iâve had to say far too often for over a decade in so many places.
I hope your claim that âjust one pageâ is enough to âshut me upâ is the real deal. I really, really hope thatâs true, and that youâre not just throwing around empty trash talk. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
i know 0 about comics but i do know that we were robbed of a) diana prince being a cool aunt to both jon kent and damian wayne and b) lorna dane being a cool but slightly drunk aunt to billy kaplan and tommy shepherd. thanks for coming to my ted talk
I remember originally being glad Lorna was in this.
Then, unfortunately, it turned out she was only included as a nameless cameo largely in the background, and the closest story role she had was being mind-controlled into submission by Emma while Magneto (who had just gone into space specifically to rescue her) ignores it.
Theyâre still good images and good art. Just bogged down by poor usage.
Also the first pic is missing a cool detail of the original. In the original, Lornaâs using her powers to stop Captain Americaâs shield after itâs been thrown at her.
On a personal level, I have mixed feelings about the idea. I stress the personal part. My reasons donât really have anything to do with whether or not itâs a good idea.
On the side for it, Marcos has been a much better love interest for Lorna on Gifted than Havokâs ever been in the comics. Heâs supportive, but not controlling. Lorna and Marcos have actual conflicts that couples are supposed to have from time to time. Lorna has her things, Marcos has his things, and sometimes they have things together, but neither of them has nothing to them except their partner.
Itâs a big step up from history with Havok, where writers (largely following Claremontâs lead) seem to think Lorna exists largely to proselytize the virtues of the great and glorious man who deigns to let her be associated with him.
But on the side against⌠I currently donât really wanna see things associated with Gifted end up in the comics. The poor handling of Dreamerâs death on the show did a number on me. I can still acknowledge itâs the best Lornaâs been written, that Eclipse is the best relationship sheâs had, but I just donât want to be reminded of the show when reading the comics. Unless itâs bringing Giftedâs version of Dreamer into the comics and getting to see all the things in comics that the show will now never do. Thatâd be great.
Again, thatâs purely personal. I doubt most people would feel the same way.
In a more objective sense, one reason not to bring Marcos over might be the inevitable attacks from Havok fans because the two characters have (mostly) the same powers and would be romantically linked to the same woman.
Personally, in the comics, Iâd rather see someone else.
Gambit has potential still. I think Peter David didnât really do that potential justice, and ended up treating Gambit almost like Havok-lite from ANXF #3-6 before starting to get his bearings. The potential remains. I especially like arguments made by Gambit fans in the past about how Lornaâs history with Havok somewhat mirrors Gambitâs history with Rogue.
Wolverine could be interesting. They had a good dynamic during Lornaâs darker Austen era.
Lorna doesnât necessarily have to remain straight, either. No reason she couldnât be bi. And now I find myself imagining Lorna and Jean having a secret romance way back in the late 60s/early 70s that we never saw on panel.
And I do wanna say, the root of my opposition to Havok as Lornaâs partner comes from its poor history. Marvel doesnât give them enough time apart, and whenever theyâre near each other, writers keep reverting them back to the old toxic treatment. They donât even have to be a couple for that to happen. Theyâre not a couple and Bunnâs been doing it since X-Men Blue #8.
Itâs like ignoring that you have a broken arm and trying to use it anyway. Thereâs damage that needs healing, and itâs not gonna heal, or heal properly, if you donât give it a rest for long enough to fully heal and start fresh. Youâre just gonna do more damage. Thereâs decades of damage to fix. Itâs not gonna get fixed in a mere 5 years, especially if Havok gets to pop his head in and horn in on almost everything Lorna does.
Thanks for asking. đ I feel like Iâm getting kinda ridiculous with these long posts, but I really wanna get into them.
(On the page with Banshee, if it canât be seen, Lornaâs text in the last panel is â⌠itâs my faultâ)
Claremont never cared about Lorna. Everything he did slowly, methodically tore her down.
He reduced her to Havokâs girlfriend, throwing away her independence, agency, courage and everything else she displayed before him in the process. In the first images here, you can see how Claremont went about that: he did things like have Lorna cower behind a rock crying for her boyfriend to save her, or isolate herself in a cabin to spend the rest of her life as some docile housewife.
Admittedly, he had her go back to fighting later, but for reasons that had nothing to do with building Lorna up. Only with building up other characters at her expense.
In the scene with Malice shown here, Storm seems plenty happy to abandon Lorna and sacrifice her to stop Sinister, and everyone else just goes along with it. This is typical. It served to reinforce the idea that Lornaâs so lowly, pathetic and worthless (as Claremont saw her and wanted everyone else to see her) that even the X-Men donât care what happens to her. The middle panel close-up smirk shown with Storm could even be interpreted as Claremont having Storm delighted by the idea of hurting her.
Moving onward.
Claremontâs problems werenât all things that could be cited easily in one or two pages or panels. A lot of them spanned multiple years and issues.
In Claremontâs hands, Lorna was routinely beaten by other characters to make them look better. I donât mean âoh I donât like that Lorna lost some fights.â Good writing includes characters losing fights. No, Claremont bent over backwards to ensure she would lose. Heâd use her to make heroes look stronger, and villains look more threatening.
Zaladane is a case in point. In the image shown here, Claremont was so jazzed about using a weak, pathetic Lorna to make Zaladane look good and threatening that he had Lorna standing behind Zaladane as a trophy of conquest for display before her forces. This is just one example. There are others.
Another thing you canât see in just one page or panel: systematic identity assassination. Claremont used Zaladane to rip Lornaâs powers away from her and leave her with a set of bland generic powers literally any random Z-list character could have.
The only exception: âhate powers.â As in, Claremont actually, honest to god, made one of those new powers âLorna sucks so hard that she makes everyone around her the worst person they can be, and inspires them all to wanna kill her so her suckage no longer exists.â And then to top it off, he had Lorna blame herself. It wasnât enough for Claremont to have Lorna hated, he had to make Lorna say and think that she deserved to be hated.
And then just to make it clear, Claremont had no respect for Lorna with her ânewâ more generic powers that made her more of a nobody, either. In the last image above, Claremont still had other characters easily defeating her. The only difference is she was no longer allowed to be the Mistress of Magnetism anymore while getting beat down for being a character Claremont had no respect for.
There was no âmaking Lorna a self-actualized characterâ with Claremont. Only blatant disrespect. He loved other characters like Storm, but he only saw Lorna as a worthless punching bag/pedestal to .
But, letâs set aside all the problems with her treatment with other characters and focus on perhaps the most important problem area: Havok.
The relationship with Havok, as put forward by Claremont, was one where Lorna is always Havokâs pathetic, submissive pet girlfriend. With regard to Maliceâs actions with their relationship, the only reason that âworksâ within the context of how Claremont set things up was playing on his characterization of Lorna as that pathetic submissive pet girlfriend. He set a foundation of Lorna being an awful, pathetic, clingy and dependent character so he could later use it to make Havok look great at her expense.
âOh man, check out how awful it is for Havok to have to fight his girlfriend!â
âOh man, Havokâs so cool to have this green-haired chick shouting his praises and doing things for him.â
âThat girl is crying for Havok to save her! From big bad Sabretooth! He must be all kinds of awesome for him to be the first thing this poor little girl cries out to as someone to save her.â
No independence. No agency. No value in her own right. Just something to build up everyone else.
Almost all the why Lornaâs where she is today, why she got no playable appearances in video games until 2013, why she never got an origin story until 2012 (she was created in 1968), why she never got to lead a team of her own until All-New X-Factor, comes down to Claremont and subsequent writers modeling their treatment of Lorna on what he did to her. He ripped her character to shreds so thoroughly that it took decades to get the sort of things even brand new characters get within years.
X-23, created in 2004, got an origin story before Lorna got one. Think about that.
If Claremont cared one bit, he couldâve given her an origin story along with so, so much else. If he was so great like everyone claims, thatâs the least he couldâve done in just one issue out of alllll the issues he wrote. But he didnât. Because he didnât care about Lorna one bit. Thatâs the point.
Thereâs also a misconception that Claremont was good for Havok and for their relationship, when he wasnât. He really, really wasnât. The way he wrote Lorna kept them from being a real couple with real thoughts and feelings and aspirations and differences of opinion that conflict.
He couldâve written the pair as a couple who build each other up and open new story doors for one another. Instead, he wrote Lorna as beneath Havok in every way, with nothing to offer of her own.
Thereâs a saying with Batman: heâs great because of his rogues gallery. Batman all by himself, just taking down random thugs, is boring. But Batman going after Joker? Or Bane? People love that. Itâs not one way, itâs two or more ways. Claremontâs construction of their relationship was all one way, and both characters suffered for it, including Havok. Just that it looked on the surface like it was great for him. It did build him up, but at the loss of everything that couldâve happened that Claremont never did.
And his writing remains the core obstacle to any potential good future for their relationship. When Havok is involved, all thrusters seem to be set on Lornaâs identity revolving around him. Bunnâs current binary of Magneto or Havok for Lorna is âprogressâ only in the narrow band Claremont forced down. We should be seeing a wide world of opportunities and potential. Instead weâre seeing âwhich man is Polaris most devoted to, and which one will her identity revolve around most from now on.â
Thatâs not treating her like a meaningful character in her own right. Itâs treating her like a trophy to be earned and displayed to show off whoâs the âbetter man.â
Regarding Bunn, when it comes specifically to Polaris, heâs better than Claremont by miles. Now, that doesnât mean heâs been good to or for her by any means. It just means he hasnât been as bad as Claremont was.
Or to put it another way: if I had to choose between Claremont or Bunn, I would go with Bunn, easy. Even at Claremontâs âbestâ I would choose Bunn over Claremont.
Austen is still the best within the 616. By miles. Because despite all his problems, he actually looked at Lorna, looked at the horrors she went through and the perspective of her life, and acknowledged her for who she was. Not what man sheâs closest to, or what hero or villain needs to be made to look good this week. Itâs pretty sad that a writer who a lot of people decry as bad happens to be the best writer Lornaâs ever had in the 616, but itâs the truth.
This is all I have time to say right now. Posting so I can get on with other things I need to do.
salarta 